Foto-© Maximilian Koenig

Kurz vor der Veröffentlichung von Permanent Way im Jahr 2019 trafen wir uns mit Charlie Cunningham in Berlin. Sechs Jahre später sprachen wir nun erneut – diesmal online – über sein neues Album In Light, das seit ein paar Tagen auf dem Markt ist. Im Interview erzählte Charlie, wie sich sein kreativer Prozess über die Jahre verändert hat, warum er inzwischen gelernt hat, seiner Intuition mehr zu vertrauen und warum gerade die unperfekten Momente oft das sind, was seine Musik am ehrlichsten und lebendigsten macht. Auch, wie ihn die Bedeutung von Authentizität in einer Zeit beschäftigt, in der Technologie und KI zunehmend Einfluss auf die Kunst und unser Menschsein nehmen.

Ein Gespräch über Licht und Schatten, über Vertrauen in den eigenen kreativen Prozess und über die kleinen Unvollkommenheiten, die Musik (und das Leben) erst besonders machen.

Charlie, it’s so lovely to speak with you again. It’s been a fair few years and it’s a real pleasure to check in with you again. How are you doing?
I’m good, thanks. A familiar face, that’s nice!

I was going to ask you how you feel your creative process has changed in the last few years and I remember, when we last spoke, you described Permanent Way as the album you always wanted to release, but you felt you had to get your debut out the way first..
Funny that I said that! I think every time I’m trying to improve my process, or whatever you want to call it, and get there in a more efficient way, that doesn’t take its toll too much on me. It can be quite a thing to make a record and I think I’m always trying to get to the honesty, the truth, in the most efficient way really. And I think I’m getting better at it, or I’m knowing my process a little bit more each time I do it. Particularly on this one, there was a big objective with Luke and I, to get rid of obstacles and barriers that get in the way of the performance. I realise that a lot of it is about not starting recording until you feel you are completely there with it and you believe all your lyrics. With me, I don’t necessarily have confidence in all of my lyrics, for example, and then the performance tends to suffer.

It’s interesting that you use the word efficiency. Efficiency can have this connotation of getting somewhere fast, perhaps no matter what. Nearly a skipping of the process.
Trying to cut out the painful…I guess it’s always going to be a bit difficult just because of the nature of what it is. It’s vulnerable stuff, it’s emotional stuff, so it’s always going to be a bit of a challenge. And it is just embracing that and accepting that and feeling like actually, that’s just part of it. With me, I’ve been talking a lot about the subconscious, which is really where all the good stuff is, and then the critical conscious side. In the end I think it’s trying to not let the critical conscious mind hinder the subconscious. Sometimes I’ve let that happen, particularly with lyrics. They’ll just fall out of me and then I start picking them apart and going, well you can’t mean that because you weren’t thinking too much. And then goes the cycle! It’s trusting those early iterations more and more as I carry on.

Is that something you feel like you learn as you grow, to trust that and to not let your analytical mind dive in and rip it apart and not just allow it how it comes out?
Yeah, basically I’m getting better with that, just for my own sanity. And also it’s usually when everything is said and done and recorded and out where sometimes a lot of the stuff really starts to make more sense to me, once I’m separate from it. So knowing that’s probably going to happen makes the process feel more sustainable long term, you know? It can’t be this emotional, complete upheaval every time, even though it’s important. There’s a balance to be struck.

Oh that good, old balance, that seems to be super key for so many things. The term In Light makes me think of themes like clarity or maybe even ease or revelation. What does it mean to you, in the context of this record?
All of those things are very valid and very true. And I think there’s a sense of transience to it as well, as in, temporarily. Those two words evoke all those things that you’ve just mentioned. That’s what’s important, really. There might be a moment of clarity that you kind of embrace. And it’s accepting and knowing that these things are all fleeting. If you’re going to be in light, you’re probably going to have moments of shade and all that comes with it. That;s all part of it I would say.

How do you feel In Light is different, or similar, to your previous albums?
All of my stuff is going to have a bit of a thread that runs through it. I’m certainly noticing it’s different in the process. All the recordings were done without a click track, the recording and guitars and singing at the same time, with very little edits. Perhaps in some ways it’s as honest as anything I’ve done as far as imperfections go. I’ve certainly embraced imperfections more on this album and kind of surrendered to that, and that was new to me. Luke, my producer, was amazing at encouraging that from the start. And also as a response to the whole conversion around AI, and about what makes us human. Imperfections and human errors feel more important than ever for us to embrace..

I’ve got so many questions on the AI topic. But to pick up on the human error theme first, I went to a ring making workshop yesterday and the words you mentioned resonate so much. I casted a ring, and it was supposed to be this perfect round, wavy thing. And it came out and we were like oh no, it’s all wonky, we didn’t use enough silver. But now, look at it. The broken part actually became the most important part of the ring.
Oh look at it, it’s so nice! That’s what’s cool about it!

It was such a reminder how sometimes the most beautiful things happen when you manage to leave that perfectionistic process behind.
Completely..

What has been perhaps the most imperfect, not-enough-silver moment in your album making?
Maybe the vocal delivery, or scratches or I don’t hit the string the perfect way I could be hitting it. They are now the things that I probably won’t be able to make again, but I’m so glad they happened the way they did and I’ve caught them there and then. It’s like when you make rings: if something comes out different from how you expected, that’s what makes it unique.
I keep talking about Luke, but he was such a great guy to work with. He made lots of records with lots of great people, but particularly the emotional deliveries. He has such great experience and he understood the type of artist I am. It can be a lot to sit in a room with someone and play these kinds of songs and he got me in a comfortable spot. It was quite amazing actually and I’m very grateful to him for that.

Luke obviously played a big role in that process. When you work with collaborators, is there an immediate creative chemistry, a creative flow that happens? Or is it something that develops as you get to know each other better?
I think you have to have the immediate kind of thing. I think that’s really important and you can tell quite quickly if someone is on the same wavelength as you. Some people just don’t get what you’re trying to do, and that’s fine. But when you find someone who does, it makes everything so much easier. Luke was recommended by someone, Leo Abrahams, I really respect and feel aligned with, he plays electric guitar on the record actually. That was a valuable starting point and a lot of trust from the very beginning. And then it’s just about him making me feel comfortable, which he did.

Going back to the AI mentioned earlier. You write in your album statement, that you set out to capture realness and that you wanted to commit to authenticity. And what you speak about here does so much, right? When you actually truly connect with people and you met these two humanes that resonated so much, something somewhat magical can happen from that?
Yes, total. And that’s what happened with the mastering too. Luke was really keen that we worked with Katie and it’s the same thing. It is really about people and connection and when you find your kind of people you tend to hold onto them and go through the journey with them.

Speaking of technology, Shape of Tomorrow is the song I listened to and found the most unexpected sound of the album. It seems to touch on the whole AI, big data theme mentioned earlier. How did that song come about?
It’s funny because the lyrics just kind of appeared. I was playing around with the time signature that is slightly obscure but doesn’t sound deliberate at the same time. The guitar line came first, it’s very driving and quite relentless, and dictated the energy of the vocals. These little lines started popping out. I think it was important for that to be on there, talking about light and shade, to counter some of the other moments dynamically. It was probably one of the more difficult ones to get down, but I’m pleased with how it came out.

What made this song so difficult in particular?
It needed a full band, and it needed to feel high-energy but not chaotic. It was a fine balance, but I’m really happy with how it turned out and it puts the other songs in the right place to some degree.

Did the song change much from the original idea?
Yes and no. There were times when I thought about making it more restrained, but that just didn’t feel right. It was one of those songs that kind of told me what it wanted to be, and I had to listen to that.

Given the theme of technology, do you feel like AI is almost eroding our sense of self and sense of connection, sense of being human, or can you embrace its potential to enhance things?
It definitely has its place, hasn’t it? AI is useful in lots of ways – like in medicine, for example – it feels almost miraculous to some degree. I’m certainly not putting down the whole concept of artificial intelligence and all that stuff, but I just think it’s very important when it comes to art and human expression to be slightly wary and to say that the job for artists and creative people is to really try and find what it is that makes us human. Maybe AI is going to force us to do that with more urgency than we’ve needed to before. And I don’t necessarily think that’s a bad thing that might bring. It might change our perception of how we receive things. It’s certainly not an AI protest kind of record or anything like that, but it’s just something that I can’t help but think about at the moment.

That’s a beautiful way of looking at it. And this being a fear-triggering topic especially amongst creatives.
You gotta have some optimism with this stuff. There’s a lot of doom and gloom, we all know about that. But I think we have to try and look for the little corners of optimism in all of this.

On This I Know you sing „If they told you this is where you’d be / And how you’d spend your days, would you believe“. Do you think younger you, or maybe yourself from when we last met 6 years ago, would recognise who you are now?
God, that’s a nice thought. I don’t know, I mean probably not. I’m still doing it, and I do feel so lucky. It’s so hard out there at the moment, especially for this to be what people do for a living. I think the younger me would be really, really pleased to be having conversations like this and to be playing the places that I’m playing and still being able to make music and for this to be what I do. He’d be pretty pleased, I would say.

Going back to the stream of consciousness you mentioned earlier, has writing ever revealed something to you that you didn’t consciously know before?
Yeah, definitely. Sometimes it can be afterwards, it can be when I listen back to things that I did years ago. There would be things that pop out that suddenly seem to make much more sense in hindsight than they might have done at the time. Sometimes you’re kind of subconsciously preempting things. I think writing is often subconscious – you don’t always know exactly what you’re saying until you step back from it.

You’re embarking on a EU and UK tour soon. If you could perform this album in completely unconventional settings, where would you do it?
Natural, acoustic venues are amazing, aren’t they? I love natural resonance and all that stuff. Unconventional settings, goodness knows, how about caves? I love the immersive quality of these types of places. Maybe a place where I don’t have to rely on electrical application. Natural amplification and resonance is pretty exciting, I think I’d like to embrace that a little bit more. I think the drums might struggle in that environment, but guitar and voice would work well in those types of rooms.

How do you approach your songs differently when preparing for a tour versus in the studio?
You have to try – especially in intimate settings – to be very careful. Luckily, my band is really sensitive to that. I’ve been with the same guys for years, so we all kind of know how to approach these things, and we don’t put anything in if it doesn’t need to be there. You just have to go with it. It can take a little bit of time, you know? You just take it one song at a time and if a moment needs to be intimate, that’s okay. You don’t have to feel like everything has to be big and dynamic. Luckily, my audiences are really attentive. Nobody’s expecting to come and have this massive, high-energy set the whole way through. Everyone’s happy to embrace the push and pull of the set. We’re starting rehearsals next week actually, so we’ll see how it goes.

Sounds amazing, good luck with the release and the tour. Thank you, Charlie, for taking the time to speak again. Check in again in six years, to stick to our routine?
Thank you, we’ll speak in six years. Take care!

Charlie Cunningham Tour:
16.04.25 Frankfurt, Gibson Club
19.04.25 Hamburg, Laeiszhalle (Großer Saal)
21.04.25 München, Muffathalle
22.04.25 Köln, Kölner Philharmonie
23.04.25 Berlin, Admiralspalast